Cafe Hayek - Latest Comments in Treason Against Reason

Re: Treason Against Reason

yetanotherDave — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

On this one, Krugman is an idiot.

Isn't it amazing as the evidence for AGW grows ever weaker that the political rhetoric and doomsday fear-mongering grows ever stronger. There is no proof of AGW. The predictions of global climate change have proven completely false. And the village idiot would have us all believe the same folks who spewed all that nonsense!!?!??! And claim the mantle of science!!!?!?!?

Of course the climate is changing - it always does. Why don't we focus on ways to deal with the inevitable changes to climate that humans have no way to control?

Re: Treason Against Reason

JasperPants — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

What happened to muirgeo?

He was an enthusiastic poster until S Andrews called him out.

I think we need to have a national debate on AGW. Give each side a half hour to make their case, followed by a televised debate.

I think such a program would pull in more viewers than the recent ABC/Obama healthcrae informercial

Re: Treason Against Reason

Daniel Kuehn — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

indiana jim -

RE: "Krugman is the same genius who argued that Keynes was great for having freed us from having to look at causes in resolving depressions and recesssions. "

I never understood this - could you explain it a little more? The General Theory is entirely about the causes of depressions and recessions. It has relatively little on how to resolve it. I never understood this criticism a bit. It's as if people disagree with his argument for the cause of recessions, so they pretend he didn't even make an argument (or perhaps they just care more about arguing over his solution than arguing over the causes he has identified???).

I personally hate it when the word "treason" gets tossed around so casually - so I wasn't a fan of this op-ed when I read it. It's an irresponsible accusation to make.

Re: Treason Against Reason

Daniel Kuehn — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

S Andrews -

Muirgeo is exactly right. The reason why you always see the University of Alabama, Huntsville data series passed around so much is because it's the ONLY data that contradicts all the other decades long warming trends... and as muirgeo has pointed out, it's been corrected since satellite errors were discovered.

Often the question of what qualifies as "science" comes up on this blog. Science is corroborating lots of data and seeing how it all fits together, and trying to explain contradicting data. Politics is finding the one graph that's published that butresses your beliefs, and posting it.

Re: Treason Against Reason

Martin Brock — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

Krugman saves the planet, just like Superman.

I want free consumers organizing resources through the market, but the truth is that most people are sheep, and megalomania sells. Tell some people that the sky is falling, and they'll follow you anywhere.

Re: Treason Against Reason

LowcountryJoe — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

>>There is a very bad case to be made that global warming is a "natural cycle". ~ Stephen | Jun 30, 2009 6:07:58 AM<<

Very bad? What's this show, then?

>>Here's a simple scenario: let's suppose global warming was true in the mild sense of some are going to suffer, whilst most will see no change and some will benefit from it. Do those who suffer have any claim to compensation? ~ Gil | Jun 30, 2009 1:58:22 AM<<

Let's suppose any natural occuring disaster occurs and affects many people in a locale...do those who suffer have any claim to compensation? Nevermind. And forget I wrote that. As it turns out there's precident (2955 federally declared natural disasters since January 1900) here!

Re: Treason Against Reason

Increase Penis Size — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

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Re: Treason Against Reason

LowcountryJoe — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

Great post SheetWise. I second what brotio wrote. I've got just a little more to add but did so on the Ducktor's own blog in order to limit the amount of exposure he gets over here.

Re: Treason Against Reason

brotio — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

LMAO @ SheetWise!

Re: Treason Against Reason

SheetWise — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

"Al Gore was dead on AN INCONVIENT TRUTH. At some point one's opinion of how the world is meets up with the hard cold defiant facts." -- muirgeo

I think I agree. It really depends on how you parse the sentence.

Re: Treason Against Reason

Ray Gardner — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

People are always going to classify their sources according to their own beliefs.

My next door neighbor is from Eastern Europe and failed to check his trust for government power at customs. We get along well, but he deals only in vague soundbites gleaned from the mainstream media, but pooh-poohs everything I say or show him as biased info regardless of how documented the information might be.

Point being is that only time will kill this whole Global Warming hoax, and thankfully, it is already dying. The rapidity of the legislation is mostly to keep the contents from public view until it is too late, but I believe it also has to do with the fact that trends are cooling, and they can't afford any more "freak" weather patterns to convince the masses of their lies.

Re: Treason Against Reason

brotio — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

Well I happen to be in Alaska. - Yasafi

Here we go again, Hypocrite. How many of the poor uninsured can afford (annual!) Alaska vacations. Yet here's our compassionate, profit-bashing Ducktor making so much money in the health care industry that he can afford to go every year!

You never answered Methinks, so here it is again: You believe health care is a right. Why are you charging such an exorbitant amount for your services that you can afford Alaska, Mexico, and constant excursions to Yosemite? Give that money back to those who deserve it, you greedy profit-monger! How dare you live in such opulence when people are (in your own words) literally dying for the knowledge you have. But, heartless Ducktor that you are, you'd rather gallivant with the grizzlies.

Re: Treason Against Reason

vidyohs — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

It seems the GW envirowhackos are so confident that their science and knowledge will prevail that they are refusing to allow a top expert researcher on Polar Bears to attend a conference in Copenhagen on Polar Bears; Because, his research shows exactly the opposite of what the others want to present to the world.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...

Dr Mitchell Taylor has been researching the status and management of polar bears in Canada and around the Arctic Circle for 30 years, as both an academic and a government employee. More than once since 2006 he has made headlines by insisting that polar bear numbers, far from decreasing, are much higher than they were 30 years ago. Of the 19 different bear populations, almost all are increasing or at optimum levels, only two have for local reasons modestly declined.

Re: Treason Against Reason

brotio — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

Thanks, Dave, for asking Yasafi the same question you posed to Krugman. Let's see if our dear Ducktor can answer it?

Re: Treason Against Reason

TrUmPiT — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

Of course, I know that human exploitation and activity is roasting and toasting the planet. What else is new about greedy, small-brained humans plundering the planet we call home? The fish, out of the once blue sea, are being depleted and driven to extinction at an alarming rate, and the fish is mostly contaminated with mercury, pcbs, pesticide residue, and what have you. The great forests of the world, home to a vast array of species, are being clearcut and burned down for short term gain at an alaming rate. What took eons for nature to assemble will most likely be all gone in a hundred years. Treason against the planet is a most mild categorization of what your fellow earthlings are up too and guilty of. Krugman just doesn't get it. There is no hope for mankind and the rest of life on Earth is being taking on a rollercoaster ride into the depths of hell on earth from which there is no disembarking or returning. Thanks folks for being a contributing element (one of roughly 7 billion others) in the slash and burn mentality of homo sapiens. Treason is for children compared to mass murder and nuclear war that the fight over water and other resources will lead to in a thirsty, parched planet. Why do vampires suck blood? If you can answer that question, you are on the path to understanding why we as a species destined for the dustbin of failed evolutionary history, right along with the pea-size brained dinosaurs. Non-treasonous Dinosaurs deserved a better fate. Treasonous, murderous humans deserve the defiled, uninhabitable planet they alone are and were responsible for creating.

Re: Treason Against Reason

Randy — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

According to the "science", the worst case scenario is that Colorado will be lke New Mexico, Wyoming will be a great place to live, and a bunch of Progressivess on the coast who are too stupid to move inland a few miles would get wiped out. In short, there is no problem.

Re: Treason Against Reason

vidyohs — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

Ray G.,

Consider this. The envirowhackos, represented in power by the democratic party, no longer need to generate hysteria or pay attention to the "deniers" by bashing them in the MSM. That part was over with the election of Barry O, and a democratic majority in both houses.

They have the power to push through any legislation they want to, a president that will sign that legislation, and as a backup they have a president that will issue Executive Orders to accomplish what legislation will not.

You're sunk, my friend, along with the rest of us. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Just because you see less and less of the hysteria peddling media doesn't mean that the danger posed by the envirowhackos is over. You're going to feel the pain of what they do for a very long time.

Re: Treason Against Reason

Gil — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

Here's a simple scenario: let's suppose global warming was true in the mild sense of some are going to suffer, whilst most will see no change and some will benefit from it. Do those who suffer have any claim to compensation? Or is it a 'tough luck' negative externality?

In other words, the Industrial Revolution imposed hardships and pollution but then you have to break eggs to make an omlette? The positive externalities of technology and industrialisation more then outweigh any negative externalities? That to give people any power to stop negative externalities (which isn't the same as direct criminal behaviour) will force people back into the Stone Age?

Re: Treason Against Reason

Babinich — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

Posted by: muirgeo on 06/29/09 @ 5:47:02 PM

"SIGHH... here's the real science."

Weak...

As for Krugman he's a carnival barker out to make a buck on an ignorant electorate.

http://anhonestclimatedebat...

Re: Treason Against Reason

Paul Zrimsek — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

One of the traditions honored here by Krugman is that you're only anti-science if you bust the lower bound of the "consensus" forecast; if you want to spook people with a prediction far beyond the upper bound, the science can be as unsettled as you need it to be.

Re: Treason Against Reason

S Andrews — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

I've been to Exit Glacier and Portage glacier and many more in Alaska and in Canada, the lower 48 and in Europe. They are all melting before my eyes.

You should get your eyes checked out.

Here is the global sea ice area ( trend line at the bottom )

Re: Treason Against Reason

S Andrews — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

Would a physician worth his/her salt argue that a sore throat should be treated with cough drops regardless of cause? Neither would an economist worth his/hers agree with Krugman contra Garrison.

Muirgeo would. He will administer a "stimulus" to a drug addict who ODed on a dangerous drug.

Re: Treason Against Reason

S Andrews — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

Your chart from a noted climate skeptic shows ZERO trend over the last 30 years.

Could you name him, especially since he is a noted skeptic? WHat data is he using? Since you seem to be too incapable of reading charts, I recommend that you take someone's help in checking if 0.154 K/decade will show up on that chart i posted!

Also, since you claim to be such an expert on climate change, point out where the data looks tampered with.

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

Re: Treason Against Reason

indianajim — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

Krugman is the same genius who argued that Keynes was great for having freed us from having to look at causes in resolving depressions and recesssions. Roger Garrison has a nice article highlighting this entitled "Mainstream Macro in an Austriam Nutshell."

Would a physician worth his/her salt argue that a sore throat should be treated with cough drops regardless of cause? Neither would an economist worth his/hers agree with Krugman contra Garrison.

The more Krugman says the better everyone will know him for the stooge for the left he has morphed into.

Re: Treason Against Reason

S Andrews — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

Dyslexic(by your own admission) Muirgeo,. You have a severe reading comprehension problem or a problem of conscious deception. THis is not what Krugman said

Krugman is dead on people like you are if nothing else treasonous to logic and science in favor of political ideaology.

Instead he said this...

And as I watched the deniers make their arguments, I couldn’t help thinking that I was watching a form of treason — treason against the planet.

That is dead on fascist.

Quack Doctor Muirgeo goes on to say...

This graph ( see figure 7 top graph) shows the corrected data revealing a warming trend of 1.54 C/decade.

Now... who to believe?

Here is another proof of your deception. The page you posted refers to 0.154 K/decade. That's Kelvin, not celsius, and that's 0.154 and not 1.54. Comprende?

BTW, did you get to Alaska by foot or by air? How much is the "carbon footprint" of your annual pilgrimage to Alaska?

Now go light a candle in front of the poster of Marx hanging on your wall.