Cafe Hayek - Latest Comments in Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

ben — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 15:29:53 -0000

David Graf

I asked earlier in an post on Cafe Hayek if it would be ok for someone to sell their heart if the price was right. I never got an answer to that posting.

Yes. Some including me, believe a person should have the right to do that. Permitting that behaviour follows from the idea that one's life is one's own. That is a principle some people believe in and accept.

Now you may find an outcome like that unpalatable, but it would be unusual (there is a black market for body parts and to my knowledge nobody is selling their hearts), and it would come bundled with the highly desirable outcome of fewer people dying while waiting for an organ (and not because live people sold their hearts, but because compensation raised supply among willing, rational and non-suicidal people).

It is not as if the status quo is free of ugliness. Seeing loved ones involuntarily die while needlessly waiting for organs is far from ideal.

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

Gary — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:36:41 -0000

To Student:

Sometimes the donor can profit... I went to another of Virginia's fine State Universities. At a place near campus, you could donate blood plasma. The hooked you up to a machine for 30 minutes twice a week, and you walked out the door with $50 a week. Of course, you were tested for opiates weekly, so you have to stay away from the poppy seed bagels, but it was an otherwise good deal.

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

indianajim — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 06:30:10 -0000

Isn't an analysis of the supply curve (that is more reflective of what is happening) here to have it begin along the horizontal axis to represent those donations that are currently forthcoming at a zero price; then have it slope upward thereafter?

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

scott clark — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 06:14:11 -0000

I am now on the record for the selling of the heart (and every other body part) at any mutually agreed upon terms.

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

Marcus — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 03:54:15 -0000

Ever seen the price of blood? By the time it reaches the patient it is $250/pint. It seems everyone can profit on it but the donor.

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

student — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 21:24:34 -0000

As an aside, there are some people suggesting that only people who are willing to donate be eligible recipients for transplants. There is a program called LifeSharers in which people can self-select to prioritize their organs to other members of Life-Sharers, whose members all prioritize their organs to other potential organ donors. You hold the card with you, and if you die (sorry for the morbid explanation), the card says that the program should be contacted first, and that waiting people on that list get first dibs on your organs. It is perfectly legal, because you are setting the priorities on your own organs.

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

Brad Hutchings — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 21:23:49 -0000

David, You are arguing the point from the current state of technology. Let's say you could "rent" your heart out for a few months and use an artificial device while a new one is grown for you from stem cells. Your existing heart is healthy and the best bet for a transplant for the recipient who needs one now. You are in great health and can deal with an artificial heart for a few months. Meanwhile, the boffins grow you a new one that will be ready in 6 months to a year. Unless you're related to the recipient, what else but the dirty green would entice you to loan your heart to someone who needs it?

Be as prudish as you like about it. This will happen legally somewhere in the world, and people who need the procedure and have money to offer will just make such a place a medical tourism destination. Or embrace the possibilities and make them accessible to everyone here.

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

student — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 21:16:39 -0000

What bothers me most about that commenter is his undeserved arrogance. It was nice of you to answer him so politely, after he insulted you by implying you're not worthy of being a professor. This was based on his assessment of "cost" that reveals that he probably didn't take econ 101. I hate that the blogosphere is filled with self-appointed experts who cast stones at every opportunity. I try to be as civil as possible, and try to recognize what I don't know, but it seems that every forum is filled with people who not only don't know about a topic, but (worst of all), think they know a lot more than the experts do, and express that sentiment with vitriol.

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

Countjulian — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 19:17:44 -0000

I asked earlier in an post on Cafe Hayek if it would be ok for someone to sell their heart if the price was right. I never got an answer to that posting. Should I conclude that the answer to that question is "yes", but that no one wants to go on the record supporting that position?

---------

As one who believes in the right of free men to euthanasia and suicide for any or no reason at all, I say "yes."

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

David P. Graf — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 19:02:55 -0000

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

ben — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 12:05:50 -0000

BTW, I've only skimmed that link which I really put in there for a little background. It's interesting that the reason for the medallion system is that there was too much congestion... Of course, congestion is related to scarce real estate for roads, and what roads are connecting people to are decided by what people build there, which is heavily regulated by zoning ordinances. *All* of this is managed by politics, rather than markets.

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

ben — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:54:29 -0000

"Think of it this way: suppose a regulation were enforced that prohibited people from selling shoelaces."

C'mon. Why use something silly like shoelaces when there is a real example? Here's one: the NY city taxi medallion system.

http://www.schallerconsult....

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

richard — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:29:22 -0000

Don,

There is another alternative: How about automatically enrolling people for transplant (everybody is by definition a donor) and you can 'opt-out' if you don't want to. But then you can't have a transplant yourself.

I think in Belgium they do this, but I don't know the results.

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

richard — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:26:46 -0000

Don,

I think your commenter made a mistake in assuming that if the price is 0 US$ for an organ, then the total price is also 0 US$.

Because as you know much better than me, the supply will be limted and people will spend more time on the waiting list.

Not only the opportunity cost of waiting should be counted, but people also die waiting for a transplant.

And that is a rather high price to pay.

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

Freedom_Lover — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 07:27:12 -0000

This is all about the insidious oppression of right-wing Christianity.

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

Chris — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 05:53:08 -0000

Those believing that poor people in the world's shoe factories would be better off without their jobs are even more likely to believe those same people are better off by not being able to sell their organs.

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

Nathan Bowers — Sat, 31 May 2008 20:24:52 -0000

I am outraged (outraged!) that the "angry bear" commenter didn't prefix "children" with a collectivizing "our".

We might have to revoke his overbearing nanny statist card.

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

GabbyD — Sat, 31 May 2008 18:34:34 -0000

a question on the applicability to developing countries, or places with many poor people.

Medically, this operation has a good chance of giving the donor medical problems down the line. Typically, the donor will receive less (the price) than the cost of dealing with the problems of organ donation, especially if the donor is poor/mis-informed/impatient. Should we allow these types of transactions?

Suppose you say we should let people freely transact, given proper medical advise, if this is a country with great demand for donations, won't this lead to illegal sidepayments (read: corruption), leading to more approvals of surgeries even if its unwarranted?

any advice on how to make this practical in developing countries is most appreciated

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

Gil — Sat, 31 May 2008 16:42:29 -0000

O_o

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

trumpetbob15 — Sat, 31 May 2008 13:49:57 -0000

There is another aspect of a greater supply of organs that most people don't notice. As a commenter on the prior post mentioned, organs aren't just plug into the body and away we go. Because of compatability issues with tissues and blood types, even if there is an organ available, it might not be compatible with the body and be rejected; in essence, to that patient, the reality is that no organ is available. However, if the supply of available organs were greatly increased, the chances of finding a match would increase as well through simple statistics. This reduces the cost of matching and better allows doctors and patients to have successful transplants.

Re: Supply and Demand Applied to Body Organs

Mauricio Flores — Sat, 31 May 2008 13:27:51 -0000

I think that there is no reason not to let anyone who wants, sell their organs. It could work for someone as some kind of death insurance, if something happened to me, i could let my family decide if they want to sell my organs after i die and get some kind of income from it. Also how could it not lower the costs of a surgery? private initiatives to transport organs would surely emerge, and people could use them to transport the organs to the highest bidder , and then lowering the costs to the hospital itself...

i don't know, it just seems so stupid to deny the economic freedom of people.