There is left right bias and then there is just plain old bias, or criminal bias, or screw you citizen bias.
I despise the left but I have to recognize that when it comes to politician versus the people they close ranks like the best defensive army that ever formed up to fight.
They throw your butt in jail for years if you are caught doing it, but they skate home free.
vidyohs
· 10 years ago
"In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress."
John Adams
kebko
· 10 years ago
It's sadly ironic that the airline industry is mentioned, since, from Southwest Airlines to Virgin Airlines to countless others, potential new market entrants encounter countless arbitrary legislative hurdles which have the explicit purpose of protecting the established corporations.
Uugggghhhh.
Maybe after the airlines, the federal heros can go after those sugar, tomato & dairy trusts, too.
Are we really supposed to mourn the death of the newspapers? What purpose were they supposed to serve?
muirgeo
· 10 years ago
The libertarian claims I see here are as follows;
-cut taxes
-decrease regulation
-make trade more free
-weaken unions
-push supply side economics
-forget about anti-trust
-don't worry about income inequality
-get rid of (or at least freeze) minimum wage
There's probably some I'm forgetting. But haven't we done all these things the last 30 years? It doesn't seem to be working.
Again claims are made, no supporting facts are given and contrary real world trends seem to be ignored. As Stephen Colbert might say the papers have a liberal bias because the facts have a liberal bias.
aldousd
· 5 months ago
You forgot a few: abolish the central bank, stop wealth redistribution, and curb government intervention in the marketplace. Allow people to be accountable for their own actions, not only in benefit, but in consequence. Allow failing companies to fail. Stop the government support of monopolies, and abolish the anti-trust laws. THEN things will be better.
jimdittmer
· 4 months ago
Hmm, doesn't seem to be working? The US has had tremendous growth in the last 30 yrs. We've seen astonishing formation of new companies and technologies. For the first time in history we (the human race) produce more than enough food to feed everyone. Starvation exists because of politics not scarcity. More people in more places have more real opportunity to better their lives than at any other time and it's due primarily to the spread of Capitalism! One need only look to China to see the positive power of markets set free. The Free Market System is not perfect because it is a human institution- hindered by fear, lack of information, yes and occasionally greed and inhumanity; but far more often it succeeds where collectivism and government monopoly fails. Was it greed that drove the sub-prime mortgage crisis? Perhaps, but none the less the 90%+ of the people who took out those loans that are still making their payments -building equity in a home that they own.
What we are really seeing is the power of a few people to convince us that the sky is falling - trying to convince us we need a solid steel umbrella.
S Andrews
· 10 years ago
Pissing match has started on a new thread. Nothing new from the molester, just what he has repeated gazillion times. He has been answered. One can be in disagreement, but shouldn't expect a different answer.
True_Liberal
· 10 years ago
<<
-cut taxes
-decrease regulation
-make trade more free
-weaken unions
-push supply side economics
-forget about anti-trust
-don't worry about income inequality
-get rid of (or at least freeze) minimum wage>>
Sounds to me like a recipe for economic recovery (reduce unemployment, more individual choice, more individual responsibility...)
JohnK
· 10 years ago
There's probably some I'm forgetting. But haven't we done all these things the last 30 years?
Not really.
Andy Wagner
· 10 years ago
The large airlines are perpetually in bankruptcy, merging to avoid collapse, and on life support.
The only airlines making money are small industry upstarts, sure signs of a lack of monopoly power!
The notion of either airlines or railroads with monopoly power is absurd on its face.
-Andy
John Dewey
· 10 years ago
Andy Wagner: "The only airlines making money are small industry upstarts, sure signs of a lack of monopoly power!"
I agree that neither monopoly nor oligopoly exists in the airline industry. But I want to point out that Southwest Airlines is no longer a small industry upstart.
because doing the opposite of all those things leads to prosperity right? Cite some examples please!
Crusader
· 10 years ago
John Dewey - Southwest is cheap, but flying on their planes is a form of physical and mental abuse! Of course it's MY choice, since I don't want to pay for first class on domestic.
jorod
· 10 years ago
The legacy airlines need anti-trust legisaltion to protect them--and their unions--from competition.
S Andrews
· 10 years ago
because doing the opposite of all those things leads to prosperity right? Cite some examples please!
You guys respond to muirgeo like Pavlov's dogs. When Muirgeo starts a pissing contest, all of you start salivating. Hilarious.
John Dewey
· 10 years ago
crusader: "Southwest is cheap, but flying on their planes is a form of physical and mental abuse!"
Please explain.
kebko
· 10 years ago
"Southwest is cheap, but flying on their planes is a form of physical and mental abuse!"
On the contrary! Southwest is one of those firms that always surprise me with their service. 2 stories:
I was flying with my family on another airline. The rule was that if you weren't at the gate 20 minutes before take-off, they could give away your seat. We were late getting to the gate & got there at just under 20 minutes. We just barely made it on time to get on & we were the last ones boarded.
The next week I was flying by myself on Southwest. I got to the gate 20 minutes before take-off. They hadn't even started boarding. The flight left on time.
Recently, I was on Southwest & had a box that I knew was oversized. I also had a bag that I knew would be larger than the carry-on guidelines. When I checked in, I told the attendant that I knew I'd have to pay for the oversized box. She disagreed. I insisted that the box was WAY over the size limit & that it was ok. I knew I'd have to pay. She went to look for a tape measure but couldn't find one. The length itself was almost equal to the total dimensions allowed for free checked bags. She just looked at it, along with another worker & they both said, "It looks fine to me". Then, my other check-in was a few pounds over. I said "I can pull out a shoe or something." They said, "Close enough". Then I held up my large carry-on & asked if it was ok. "Why not? Looks fine." In fact, I have been at airports where the TSA had templates up at some check points that blocked large bags from going through to the gates & I have had Southwest employees tell me which check-points to go to so that I could get the bag through.
Southwest rocks.
Crusader
· 10 years ago
kebko - I'm not saying that SWA doesn't provide good customer service, just that it's tight, cramped on the plane and its often too hot especially before takeoff they don't run the air conditioning. That's especially bad during the hot months. I realize that the cramped coach seating is why you get ultra low fares, but I think it's un-just that I can't fly first-class like the filthy rich!
Crusader
· 10 years ago
You guys respond to muirgeo like Pavlov's dogs. When Muirgeo starts a pissing contest, all of you start salivating. Hilarious.
Actually I was saying just this yesterday, but you know the saying - "if you can't beat them join them". The problem is that we have several respected commenters who always respond to muirdiot. Am I supposed to just stay on the sideline?
John Dewey
· 10 years ago
jorod: "The legacy airlines need anti-trust legisaltion to protect them--and their unions--from competition."
That seems to be the perception of many, but I'm not sure I understand it.
Let's remember that these remaining legacy airlines are the winners from 30 years of competition. Three decades ago the 10 largest U.S. airlines were, in order:
United
Eastern
American
Delta
TWA
PanAm
Northwest
Western
Braniff
National
Braniff
Only 4 of those 10 have survived. It was brutal competition that eliminated the other 6.
Though I once blamed unions for many corporate failures, I no longer do so. Southwest Airlines is today the most unionized of all the U.S. airlines. Those unions haven't prevented the company from realizing 36 consecutive profitable years.
John Dewey
· 10 years ago
Crusader: "I realize that the cramped coach seating is why you get ultra low fares"
Just to be clear, the Coach class seat pitch for Southwest - 32 to 33 inches - is the same as that offerred in Coach class by almost all legacy airlines. Yet the legacy airlines did not offer "ultra low fares" until Southwest entered their markets.
"Cramped coach seating" is not why Southwest can offer ultra low fares. Southwest's strategy from its earliest days has always been to maximize utilization of expensive resources. That's the real key to their financial success.
Turn times at the gate for Southwest Airlines are legendary. That's because founder Herb Kelleher understood that expensive aircraft and high wage pilots will not earn revenue sitting on the ground.
A number of other practices at Southwest evolved from that simple strategy of maximizing resource utilization. It's the foundation that underlies their success.
Jeffrey edelman
· 10 years ago
Did any of you read the article? It seems to me that it is indeed impossible to know which side is right i.e which industrial players are benefiting from, and which are succumbing to, unfair competition since it seems that this has become essentially a political matter and not somehow amenable to a "pure" economic analysis.
Since all of these questions are political, at their core, then it seems most fair that the currently fashionable political trend (Democratic) would and should carry the day. Can this somehow be refuted?
Doug Stevens
· 10 years ago
John Dewey: Aren't there restrictions prohibiting foreign owned airlines from operating domestically?
john dewey
· 10 years ago
doug stevens: "John Dewey: Aren't there restrictions prohibiting foreign owned airlines from operating domestically?"
Yes.
As far as I know, only the members of the EU enjoy 8th or 9th freedom rights - and only within the EU member nations.
IMO, lack of 8th and 9th freedom has hurt consumers in other nations much more than in the U.S. The size and strength of the U.S. economy, plus the relative light barriers to entry, have enabled in the U.S. the most competitive environment on the globe for the airline industry. IOW, there has been significant opportunity in the U.S. and U.S. entrepreneurs have taken advantage of it.
All Comments
There is left right bias and then there is just plain old bias, or criminal bias, or screw you citizen bias.
I despise the left but I have to recognize that when it comes to politician versus the people they close ranks like the best defensive army that ever formed up to fight.
http://www.securitiesdocket.com/2009/03/11/closing-the-congressional-insider-trading-loophole/
http://www.goupstate.com/article/20090716/ARTICLES/907161007?Title=Congressional-insider-trading
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/07/16/former-sec-commissioner-insider-trading-by-congress-is-perfectl/
They throw your butt in jail for years if you are caught doing it, but they skate home free.
"In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress."
John Adams
It's sadly ironic that the airline industry is mentioned, since, from Southwest Airlines to Virgin Airlines to countless others, potential new market entrants encounter countless arbitrary legislative hurdles which have the explicit purpose of protecting the established corporations.
Uugggghhhh.
Maybe after the airlines, the federal heros can go after those sugar, tomato & dairy trusts, too.
Are we really supposed to mourn the death of the newspapers? What purpose were they supposed to serve?
The libertarian claims I see here are as follows;
-cut taxes
-decrease regulation
-make trade more free
-weaken unions
-push supply side economics
-forget about anti-trust
-don't worry about income inequality
-get rid of (or at least freeze) minimum wage
There's probably some I'm forgetting. But haven't we done all these things the last 30 years? It doesn't seem to be working.
Again claims are made, no supporting facts are given and contrary real world trends seem to be ignored. As Stephen Colbert might say the papers have a liberal bias because the facts have a liberal bias.
What we are really seeing is the power of a few people to convince us that the sky is falling - trying to convince us we need a solid steel umbrella.
Pissing match has started on a new thread. Nothing new from the molester, just what he has repeated gazillion times. He has been answered. One can be in disagreement, but shouldn't expect a different answer.
<<
-cut taxes
-decrease regulation
-make trade more free
-weaken unions
-push supply side economics
-forget about anti-trust
-don't worry about income inequality
-get rid of (or at least freeze) minimum wage>>
Sounds to me like a recipe for economic recovery (reduce unemployment, more individual choice, more individual responsibility...)
There's probably some I'm forgetting. But haven't we done all these things the last 30 years?
Not really.
The large airlines are perpetually in bankruptcy, merging to avoid collapse, and on life support.
The only airlines making money are small industry upstarts, sure signs of a lack of monopoly power!
The notion of either airlines or railroads with monopoly power is absurd on its face.
-Andy
Andy Wagner: "The only airlines making money are small industry upstarts, sure signs of a lack of monopoly power!"
I agree that neither monopoly nor oligopoly exists in the airline industry. But I want to point out that Southwest Airlines is no longer a small industry upstart.
With 101,965,552 passengers enplaned in 2009, Southwest is now the industry leader in U.S. air travel.
-cut taxes
-decrease regulation
-make trade more free
-weaken unions
-push supply side economics
-forget about anti-trust
-don't worry about income inequality
-get rid of (or at least freeze) minimum wage
=============================================
because doing the opposite of all those things leads to prosperity right? Cite some examples please!
John Dewey - Southwest is cheap, but flying on their planes is a form of physical and mental abuse! Of course it's MY choice, since I don't want to pay for first class on domestic.
The legacy airlines need anti-trust legisaltion to protect them--and their unions--from competition.
You guys respond to muirgeo like Pavlov's dogs. When Muirgeo starts a pissing contest, all of you start salivating. Hilarious.
crusader: "Southwest is cheap, but flying on their planes is a form of physical and mental abuse!"
Please explain.
"Southwest is cheap, but flying on their planes is a form of physical and mental abuse!"
On the contrary! Southwest is one of those firms that always surprise me with their service. 2 stories:
I was flying with my family on another airline. The rule was that if you weren't at the gate 20 minutes before take-off, they could give away your seat. We were late getting to the gate & got there at just under 20 minutes. We just barely made it on time to get on & we were the last ones boarded.
The next week I was flying by myself on Southwest. I got to the gate 20 minutes before take-off. They hadn't even started boarding. The flight left on time.
Recently, I was on Southwest & had a box that I knew was oversized. I also had a bag that I knew would be larger than the carry-on guidelines. When I checked in, I told the attendant that I knew I'd have to pay for the oversized box. She disagreed. I insisted that the box was WAY over the size limit & that it was ok. I knew I'd have to pay. She went to look for a tape measure but couldn't find one. The length itself was almost equal to the total dimensions allowed for free checked bags. She just looked at it, along with another worker & they both said, "It looks fine to me". Then, my other check-in was a few pounds over. I said "I can pull out a shoe or something." They said, "Close enough". Then I held up my large carry-on & asked if it was ok. "Why not? Looks fine." In fact, I have been at airports where the TSA had templates up at some check points that blocked large bags from going through to the gates & I have had Southwest employees tell me which check-points to go to so that I could get the bag through.
Southwest rocks.
kebko - I'm not saying that SWA doesn't provide good customer service, just that it's tight, cramped on the plane and its often too hot especially before takeoff they don't run the air conditioning. That's especially bad during the hot months. I realize that the cramped coach seating is why you get ultra low fares, but I think it's un-just that I can't fly first-class like the filthy rich!
You guys respond to muirgeo like Pavlov's dogs. When Muirgeo starts a pissing contest, all of you start salivating. Hilarious.
Actually I was saying just this yesterday, but you know the saying - "if you can't beat them join them". The problem is that we have several respected commenters who always respond to muirdiot. Am I supposed to just stay on the sideline?
jorod: "The legacy airlines need anti-trust legisaltion to protect them--and their unions--from competition."
That seems to be the perception of many, but I'm not sure I understand it.
Let's remember that these remaining legacy airlines are the winners from 30 years of competition. Three decades ago the 10 largest U.S. airlines were, in order:
United
Eastern
American
Delta
TWA
PanAm
Northwest
Western
Braniff
National
Braniff
Only 4 of those 10 have survived. It was brutal competition that eliminated the other 6.
Though I once blamed unions for many corporate failures, I no longer do so. Southwest Airlines is today the most unionized of all the U.S. airlines. Those unions haven't prevented the company from realizing 36 consecutive profitable years.
Crusader: "I realize that the cramped coach seating is why you get ultra low fares"
Just to be clear, the Coach class seat pitch for Southwest - 32 to 33 inches - is the same as that offerred in Coach class by almost all legacy airlines. Yet the legacy airlines did not offer "ultra low fares" until Southwest entered their markets.
"Cramped coach seating" is not why Southwest can offer ultra low fares. Southwest's strategy from its earliest days has always been to maximize utilization of expensive resources. That's the real key to their financial success.
Turn times at the gate for Southwest Airlines are legendary. That's because founder Herb Kelleher understood that expensive aircraft and high wage pilots will not earn revenue sitting on the ground.
A number of other practices at Southwest evolved from that simple strategy of maximizing resource utilization. It's the foundation that underlies their success.
Did any of you read the article? It seems to me that it is indeed impossible to know which side is right i.e which industrial players are benefiting from, and which are succumbing to, unfair competition since it seems that this has become essentially a political matter and not somehow amenable to a "pure" economic analysis.
Since all of these questions are political, at their core, then it seems most fair that the currently fashionable political trend (Democratic) would and should carry the day. Can this somehow be refuted?
John Dewey: Aren't there restrictions prohibiting foreign owned airlines from operating domestically?
doug stevens: "John Dewey: Aren't there restrictions prohibiting foreign owned airlines from operating domestically?"
Yes.
As far as I know, only the members of the EU enjoy 8th or 9th freedom rights - and only within the EU member nations.
IMO, lack of 8th and 9th freedom has hurt consumers in other nations much more than in the U.S. The size and strength of the U.S. economy, plus the relative light barriers to entry, have enabled in the U.S. the most competitive environment on the globe for the airline industry. IOW, there has been significant opportunity in the U.S. and U.S. entrepreneurs have taken advantage of it.