Cafe Hayek - Latest Comments in Planet Obama

Re: Planet Obama

Henri Hein — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:52:21 -0000

I don't like the N word, but the Lew Rockwell crowd, part of The Fever Swamp, definitely have some disturbing tendencies towards Confederate apologism and outright racism.

I wouldn't put too much into their list of contributors. From what I understand, it's easy to get on it and hard to get off it. Lew Rockwell will add the name of a reputed academic on the slightest pretext and often without their knowledge, and they have to threaten with a law-suit to be taken off again.

Re: Planet Obama

Christopher_Renner — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:44:50 -0000

As per wikipedia's entry on the subject, "The term anarcho-capitalism was most likely coined in 1968 by Jarrett Wollstein and revived by economist Murray Rothbard."

Brotio, incidentally, I'm no leftist, and wholeheartedly agree that humans are not the property of the state. I still think there must be a state, however.

On the subject of Obama, how about a shoutout to Dick Cheney?

Re: Planet Obama

Gil — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:19:59 -0000

Uh huh . . .

Re: Planet Obama

brotio — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:04:20 -0000

Gil,

I'm sorry for giving you too much credit. Perhaps you Leftists didn't invent the term.

You merely use it to describe anyone who disagrees with your notion that we are all property of the State.

Re: Planet Obama

indianajim — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 04:26:31 -0000

Russ,

You made the comment that the likelihood of an $800b stimulus being "pork-free" is the same as that of a ham sandwich being pork-free. Spot on, and well put!

Re: Planet Obama

Gil — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:57:23 -0000

"Anarcho-capitalism is a term invented by Leftists like Gil and Mierduck. They apply the term to anyone who disagrees with their notion that we're all property of the State."

Apparently you didn't look too hard brotio:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Re: Planet Obama

JP — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:20:40 -0000

To get back to the podcast that this post is about...

"Sharp-toothed Austrians" I liked that line.

The GMU Econ department should hang that phrase in plain sight.

Re: Planet Obama

Christopher_Renner — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:36:05 -0000

Doug, you've kind of summarized the reasons I don't get it either.

Given the following premises which I think are manifestly evident in humanity at large:

1. The existence of insane people,i.e. individuals who through lack of mental capacity cannot engage in rational behavior toward others, and who are outside the realm of whatever parental authority might exist,

2. The tendency of nation-states/tribes/clans toward aggressive behavior towards others (for purposes of my argument it doesn't matter that some groups may not have this tendency, as long as even one does),

3. The inevitability, given a sufficiently large group, of individuals willing to behave against the interests of other group members, namely criminals,

4. The fact that the entire world cannot be united into one single society by any meaningful standard,

5. The necessity of some sort of force, used when necessary, against the groups mentioned in points 1 thru 3,

anarchism, whether anarcho-capitalism, anarcho-communism, or any other form, is not a philosophy which is feasible for humanity at large.

Anarchism is theoretically viable only in a society which is free of criminals and the mentally incompetent, and has no chance whatsoever of being invaded by its neighbors.

A society free of criminals and mentally incompetent people is impossible given the current state of human nature, and one free from the possibility of invasion must be so isolated geographically and impoverished economically that no potential invader would bother (and that's even assuming the absence of an Alexander/Napoleon/Hitler who can't be satisfied without conquering the entire world).

Re: Planet Obama

brotio — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:31:29 -0000

Anarcho-capitalism is a term invented by Leftists like Gil and Mierduck. They apply the term to anyone who disagrees with their notion that we're all property of the State.

Re: Planet Obama

Doug — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:11:16 -0000

What is anarcho-capitalism? Some kind of society without any rule of law? Capitalism does not flourish without institutions that protect private property and enforcement of contracts. Capitalism needs minimal government at the very least. So "anarcho-capitalism" is some kind of false term.

Re: Planet Obama

Christopher_Renner — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:24:13 -0000

Sam Grove: Calling something nonsense does not make it so.
As you don't wish to take the time or space to make a thoughtful critique of the positions represented there, I suggest refraining from subjective characterization.
Visitors to the site can make their own judgment.

You're right. Suggesting that their views included some nonsense, without any description of the reasoning behind my judgment, or citation of an actual article, was foolish.

As an example of nonsense on LRC, here's this reprinted article by Murray Rothbard in which Rothbard complains about other libertarians who don't hate the state as much as he does.

Some quotes:

"Tom Paine’s radical hatred of the State and statism was and is far more important to the cause of liberty than the fact that he never crossed the divide between laissez-faire and anarchism."

Paine hated monarchy, aristocracy, and hereditary succession, not government per se. In Common Sense he says that "Government in its best state is but a necessary evil"; but this is followed in the same section by a largely positive description of government as it had developed in the colonies. His later support for the French Revolution certainly belies Rothbard's assertion that he hated the state.

Another Rothbard quote:

"Amidst the entire spectrum of political alternatives, David Friedman has decided that anarcho-capitalism is superior. But superior to an existing political structure which is pretty good too. In short, there is no sign that David Friedman in any sense hates the existing American State or the State per se, hates it deep in his belly as a predatory gang of robbers, enslavers, and murderers. No, there is simply the cool conviction that anarchism would be the best of all possible worlds, but that our current set-up is pretty far up with it in desirability. For there is no sense in Friedman that the State – any State – is a predatory gang of criminals."

In other words, "Friedman agrees with me on the merits of anarcho-capitalism, but I'm a better anarcho-capitalist because of how much I hate the State." Doesn't that qualify as a nonsensical point?

Re: Planet Obama

brotio — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:01:23 -0000

I just did about thirty Google-searches of Herbie Hoover, St Franklin of Roosevelt and His Holiness: The Divine Prophet Algore I. Not because I was looking for information to post, but because I read that two searches uses as much energy as heating a tea kettle full of water.

I figure if Mierduck, who is a Priest in the Church of AGW, can trample us with his nonsensical, gigantic carbon footprints of Jan 12, 2009 9:59:59 AM and Jan 12, 2009 10:10:00 AM, then I may as well help the British make tea.

Re: Planet Obama

Sam Grove — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:03:46 -0000

sorry, I meant that to appear thus:

"a good bit of anarcho-capitalist ~~nonsense~~ thought present there"

Re: Planet Obama

Sam Grove — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:49:30 -0000

a good bit of anarcho-capitalist nonsense present there

A bit of rewrite to make a more objective comment:

"a good bit of anarcho-capitalist ~~thought~~ present sentiment there"

Calling something nonsense does not make it so.

As you don't wish to take the time or space to make a thoughtful critique of the positions represented there, I suggest refraining from subjective characterization.

Visitors to the site can make their own judgment.

Re: Planet Obama

Christopher_Renner — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:17:16 -0000

I also would say that calling LewRockwell.com a neo-Nazi site is a bit of a stretch. There does seem to be a good bit of anarcho-capitalist nonsense present there, and I suspect if I read further I might find some Confederate revisionist history, but that's not exactly neo-Nazi stuff.

Re: Planet Obama

vidyohs — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:16:00 -0000

Based on the fact that you see names with what you identify as being Jewish?

Are you saying that you think Jews did not, and would not, associate themselves with a radical leftwing movements such as the National Socialist Party?

The Jews of 1930s Europe did not purge themselves of the NAZI Party, the NAZI Party purged itself of Jews.

As for a willingness to participate enthusiastically in radical politics, sir, have you never heard of Leon Trotsky, Julius and Ethel Rosenburg, Noam Chomsky, and countless others who were/are devotees of communism? The communist party was and is supported with great enthusiasm by many prominent Jewish people.

Re: Planet Obama

Jin Cheng — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:27:55 -0000

My point is, LewRockwell.com doesn't fit the definition of Neo-Nazi.

Re: Planet Obama

vidyohs — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:11:57 -0000

"I see a lot of jewish sounding last names amongst those who are named as columnists at the Neo Nazi Lew Rockwell

Posted by: Jin Cheng | Jan 12, 2009 1:48:20 PM"

And, your point would be?

I could write a lot depending on your response to the question, but I'd rather wait and see what point you think you're making.

Re: Planet Obama

Jin Cheng — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:48:20 -0000

I see a lot of jewish sounding last names amongst those who are named as columnists at the Neo Nazi Lew Rockwell

Re: Planet Obama

Sam Grove — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:16:04 -0000

Lew Rockwell is a neo Nazi site, I'd steer clear.

No, they are clearly anti-fascist over at lrc.org. Also pro-free market and pro individual liberty.

You all would rather rewrite history with regards to Hoovers and FDR's responses and their effects to the last Republican Lead Great Depression.

It has already been rewritten, long ago. The rewrite is the current mainstream view.

Have you forgotten that the winners write the history?

Re: Planet Obama

Superheater — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 05:39:18 -0000

Fact is the experiment in which we were all economic Guinea pigs occurred when we let Washington concoct complex financial interventions like GSE's with no oversight.

Re: Planet Obama

muirgeo — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 05:10:00 -0000

This made me cringe, because studying the stimulus plan will be unlike most experiments done in the natural and physical sciences. Generally, these experiments never harm anyone ..

Posted by: Dan Johnson

It most definitely is an experiment. If we did exactly everything YOU wished would it then somehow NOT be an experiment?

You all would rather rewrite history with regards to Hoovers and FDR's responses and their effects to the last Republican Lead Great Depression.

Fact is the experiment in which we were all economic Guinea pigs occurred when we let Wall Street concoct complex financial derivative and things like CDO's with no oversight. That experiment cost me and YOU almost what we pay in income taxes over 10 years in just 1 year. The best evidence suggest the government will get back 1.4 dollars for every dollars of ours it invest. That's better then anything I can think to invest in right now as my mattress doesn't give a very good rate of return.

Re: Planet Obama

muirgeo — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 04:59:59 -0000

January 11, 2009

Planet Obama

" I never seen anyone so cynical, without any true principles."

Posted by: Crusader

"Everything about these stimulii and bailouts sickens me,....

These bailouts are a disaster for the U.S. economy and ordinary Americans."

Lee Kelley

I've started my collection for future reference.

Re: Planet Obama

Blackadder — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:18:02 -0000

Russ,

Did you mention how you were beating them for best podcast?

Re: Planet Obama

Crusader — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 00:16:40 -0000

Lew Rockwell is a neo Nazi site, I'd steer clear.