Cafe Hayek - Latest Comments in I was wrong

Re: I was wrong

Stephen Dawson — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 23:20:59 -0000

P.J. O'Rourke says in 'Eat the Rich' that Julius Nyerere, after stepping down from leadership in Tanzania, said 'I was wrong' about his entire socialist program for the country.

Re: I was wrong

Ambuj Saxena — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:08:02 -0000

I think it is far fetched to expect top politicians (like President) to feel guilty. Politicians are narcissists, and narcissists don't feel guilt. They only feel shame.

Re: I was wrong

Jake S. — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:01:39 -0000

Only after the American people told him he was wrong first.

Zing! Thank you, I'll be here all week....

Re: I was wrong

Ray — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:10:43 -0000

GHW Bush said he was wrong when he raised taxes.

Re: I was wrong

Jake S. — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 14:26:24 -0000

Wow, that's actually a good one. Not wanting to stray too far along on a tangent, but I didn't recall them as being "illegally sold" at the time of sale, although I'll be the first to admit I didn't follow this issue as closely as others may have done.

Re: I was wrong

vikingvista — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 14:17:04 -0000

"Greenspan is apologizing for running the Fed in a manner consistent with an inaccurate understanding of the market."

That's like Jack-the-Ripper apologizing for an inaccurate understanding of hemodynamics.

Re: I was wrong

danielkuehn — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:48:27 -0000

RE: "What you call Greenspan's contrition was quite literally NOT contrition. Greenspan apologizing for capitalism is like a Democrat apologizing for a Republican or a capitalist apologizing for a socialist."

"Capitalism" isn't a person and it doesn't decide anything. Greenspan can't apologize for it. The whole point is Greenspan is apologizing for running the Fed in a manner consistent with an inaccurate understanding of the market. He is culpable for that. I'd have prefered he apologized for the interest rates as well, but I'll take what I can get.

Re: I was wrong

vikingvista — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:23:18 -0000

"He is apologizing for others and not himself."

Which is in fact criticism of others, masked in apology.

Re: I was wrong

vikingvista — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:13:06 -0000

"I prefer people just state what they think and when someone presents information that invalidates their opinion, they change their mind. To me, that's a sign of a healthy ego and of a person who is more interested in coming to the right conclusion rather than nurturing hubris."

Perfect. If people want their egos stroked they should visit their mothers. If they want to think and learn, they should strip that nonsense from discussion.

Re: I was wrong

RL — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:52:53 -0000

Best CEO apology came recently, from Jeff Bezos of Amazon, regarding Kindle deletion of "1984," published on the Amazon website, where it was initially boldly highlighted:

This is an apology for the way we previously handled illegally sold copies of 1984 and other novels on Kindle. Our "solution" to the problem was stupid, thoughtless, and painfully out of line with our principles. It is wholly self-inflicted, and we deserve the criticism we've received. We will use the scar tissue from this painful mistake to help make better decisions going forward, ones that match our mission.

With deep apology to our customers,

Jeff Bezos
Founder & CEO
Amazon.com

Re: I was wrong

vikingvista — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:51:34 -0000

contrite - feeling or expressing pain or sorrow for sins or offenses

What you call Greenspan's contrition was quite literally NOT contrition. Greenspan apologizing for capitalism is like a Democrat apologizing for a Republican or a capitalist apologizing for a socialist.

It is only made more infuriating when this apology is in reality a diversion from his own culpability--when it is him blaming someone else for his own culpability.

It is despicable.

Re: I was wrong

Methinks — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:47:13 -0000

The only thing I want to hear from my president is "I promise I will step back and let you make your own decisions for your life."

Re: I was wrong

vikingvista — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:45:26 -0000

"people who disagree with you have a tendancy to not argue with your points directly and instead just accuse you of thinking you know everything"

So true. Such people frequently tend to launch into ad hominems without adding information, as you say. Those are not people who add value to argument, so it is useful for them to reveal themselves early. All the more reason not stroke their egos with noninformative qualifiers.

Re: I was wrong

Methinks — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:45:10 -0000

No question. Scary stuff.

Re: I was wrong

yetanotherDave — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:34:45 -0000

Many of us do, but some are too stupid to understand they're helping speed up the hand-cart.

Re: I was wrong

Jake S. — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:29:06 -0000

On a related but lighter note...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Re: I was wrong

Citizen Buddy — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:21:47 -0000

There is also Barak Obama going around the world apologizing. He is apologizing for others and not himself. This is harmful because it puts himself and the others in a discredited position. This is passive/agressive apologizing and I doubt he will apologize for his own actions and policies becausen he has weakend his status from the outset.

Re: I was wrong

Seth — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 12:00:16 -0000

Well put. Agreed.

Re: I was wrong

Seth — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 11:59:50 -0000

I agree to a certain extent. It can be a manipulator. But, I find it helpful in several respects. First, it's a nice reminder to myself that, in fact, I could be wrong and that my main goal should be to learn if I am or not. That opens the door for others to present evidence or arguments that will either convince me that I'm wrong or not. Second, I find that if I'm genuine, it takes the powder keg out of the discussion and leads to a much more productive discussion.

Based on what I know about people being wrong (it's possible and probable, even for 'experts'), I want to hear from my doctor, "I could be wrong, you should get a second opinion". I want to hear from people who influence my kid, "I could be wrong, you should think through this yourself." I want to hear from scientists claiming that AGW is a serious threat, "I could be wrong. That's based on my interpretation of these specific facts. Take a look for yourself and draw your own conclusions or, perhaps you'll see something I don't." I want to hear from my President,....

Re: I was wrong

Seth — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 11:47:36 -0000

"especially when they're genuine."

Re: I was wrong

Methinks — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 11:43:19 -0000

BTW. The handbasket of which you speak? Going straight to hell.

I hail from such a hell. Y'all aren't gonna like it. But, I think most people reading this blog already know that.

Re: I was wrong

Methinks — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 11:41:54 -0000

The same thing happened after the tech bubble collapsed. Every Tom Dick and Harry decided to sink their life savings into anything that ended in "Dot Com". When they found out the hard way the took too much risk, it wasn't their fault. It was the analysts who made them do it.

Even if Wall Street analysts thought the company was a dog, they had to put a strong buy rating on it. If they didn't and the stock took off, they would be at best a laughing stock and at worst ignored and eventually replaced with someone who would. The customers (including portfolio managers - just try downgrading a stock a portfolio manager is long and experience the earsplitting screaming and his pulling of trades from your firm) wants the analyst to help the stock up because they have a positive bias. When the whole thing blows up, it's all the stupid analysts' fault. They sued them for years. Perfect.

Re: I was wrong

jorod — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 11:03:14 -0000

Did Jimmy Carter ever ask foregiveness for inflating the economy and destroyingg the value of the dollar? No. Voters forgive and punish. Politicians look for scapegoats.

Would you admit mistake with Holder as AG?

Re: I was wrong

Jake S. — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:04:14 -0000

"His analysis is wrong. The organizations were acting "in the interest of shareholders" (whatever that means)."

I completely agree with you here. (there's an audible 'gasp' from the crowd). Then (and this is, IMO, the most important part), there was no check on this unbridled self-interest (you can go ahead and call it 'greed'). They were not allowed to fail. I mean, hell, if you're going to remove the threat of failure, why even have capitalism anymore?

Capitalism without the threat of failure is a very dangerous thing and, at some point in the game, we must ask ourselves "Where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket?"

Re: I was wrong

Jake S. — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 09:55:51 -0000

I didn't see vikingvista as dismissing Greenspan's apology outright; merely pointing out that Greenspan seemed to be apologizing for the wrong thing. I'd liken it to George Bush (or Alberto Gonzales) apologizing for all the people he green-lighted the enhanced interrogation of not having the information he thought they might*... you and I both would probably (and rightly!) be all over his back-side for that.

* or for going "too far" in a handful of cases; it's early this morning, and I'm not analogizing very well