Cafe Hayek - Latest Comments in I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

MWG — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:09:13 -0000

Should we trust a man whose two most recent personal accomplishments were writing two books... about himself?

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Babinich — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:45:42 -0000

Obama: just how intelligent and responsible can he be? He continues to have trouble placing people in his administration that pay taxes...

His record as a leader of the state of Illinois is lacking. That's putting in nicely.

http://gawker.com/5161837/o...

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Sam Grove — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:06:34 -0000

Could you post 10 major areas where this blog has altered your point of view?

Can he cite even 1?

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

the dude — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:03:30 -0000

For doktor arrogant blowhard,

All lies and jest,

Still a man hears what he wants to hear

And disregards the rest....Paul Simon

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Oil Shock — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:39:37 -0000

Oil Shock....

Muirgeo, if you had any integrity, you wouldn't have used these following words in that order : Hoover doing NOTHING ( nada, zero, zilch ) for 3 years.

What is the point of you posting here? Do you have even a amoeba sized opening to see the opposing point of view? How long have you been coming here? Could you post 10 major areas where this blog has altered your point of view? I bet you couldn't. "

Muirgeo's answer......

Crickets chirping....

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Oil Shock — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:38:29 -0000

muirgeo....

bama nor the Democratic party have been in charge these last 8 years.

Why is that number 8 important? WHat if the number to look at is last 2, 4, 6, 10, 12 or 16 or last 100 is more relevant in the current context?

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Oil Shock — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:34:29 -0000

Muirgeo "I stick up for the truth "

You don't have to too far past to find a muirgeo lie.

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Sam Grove — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:33:22 -0000

George places great stock in party labels.

Hoover was "progressive".

We've had "progressive" government since Teddy Roosevelt.

I don't blame "progressives" for trying to hide from that.

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

MWG — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:25:14 -0000

"But again you guys have no qualms blaming the First Republican Lead Great depression on FDR. Really it just silly at some very basic level."

-Muir

Anyone here a fan of Hoover?

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

muirgeo — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:18:07 -0000

"Now you have the gall to claim Obama is going to destroy the economy."

-Muir

You stick up for Obama as if he were your mother. A little creepy IMO.

Posted by: MWG

No I stick up for the truth and I point out revisionist history when I see it.

Some one saying Obama is going to destroy the economy considering the condition it was handed to him is a little creepy for their blatant lack of intellectual honesty.

But again you guys have no qualms blaming the First Republican Lead Great depression on FDR. Really it just silly at some very basic level.

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Sam Grove — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:40:52 -0000

Obama is just the headpiece. We acknowledge that the whole "progressive" movement is culminating at this time in history.

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

MWG — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:11:38 -0000

"Now you have the gall to claim Obama is going to destroy the economy."

-Muir

You stick up for Obama as if he were your mother. A little creepy IMO.

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Sam Grove — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:40:23 -0000

And if you have something to say about Randian principles just remember her good buddy Greenspan has been at the wheel of the Fed.

What does that have to do with what he has done at the helm of the FED? Rand called him "the gravedigger". Sounds as though she thought highly of him, eh?

So the Democratic party didn't become the majority in the house two+ years ago?

Hmmm.

You probably still think of the GOP as a center of libertarian activism.

Anybody who thinks that must have intellectual cropophagia.

That's right, Hoover was another member of the progressive movement.

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Guest — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:29:07 -0000

Once again, I don't know why I bother.

"You should listen to your own advice which you give in the first sentence."

You obviously missed his point. In the same breath you have said that the free-market doesn't exist and that, simultaneously, it is responsible for the current state of affairs. The assertion is obviously internally inconsistent. There is nothing internally inconsistent with Michael Smith's argument.

"The contradiction here is the fact that you guys said the same thing back when Clinton took over..."

Attributing what others said before Clinton took office to Michael Smith makes about as much sense as attributing what George W. Bush says to...you. Have a care, doctor.

You can either deal with his argument or project your straw-men onto him. If you choose the latter, don't expect anyone here to take you seriously.

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

muirgeo — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:59:18 -0000

Only an active mind is troubled by the existence of contradictions.

"Obamaâs spending, taxation and environmental regulations will crush the economy and leave us -- in all probability -- in the worst of all economic situations: a hyperinflationary depression, ..."

Posted by: Michael Smith

You should listen to your own advice which you give in the first sentence.

The contradiction here is the fact that you guys said the same thing back when Clinton took over and we had as good of economic growth as ever.

Now you have the gall to claim Obama is going to destroy the economy.

NEWSFLASH Mr. "Only an active mind is troubled by the existence of contradictions". The economy is already destroyed. Obama nor the Democratic party have been in charge these last 8 years. And guess what it happened after we massively cut taxes to the wealthy and deregulated the finance industry.

And if you have something to say about Randian principles just remember her good buddy Greenspan has been at the wheel of the Fed.

Now suck up all those contradictions of logic YOU present. I think you should be trouble by them but for some reason your mind appears not to be.

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Guest — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:31:00 -0000

Hell Sam, FDR accused him of being a socialist in the 1932 campaign...

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Sam Grove — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 05:23:20 -0000

George is a memebot.

On another note, look what the Wikipedia entry on Herbert hoover says:

"Hoover deeply believed in the Efficiency Movement (a major component of the Progressive Era), arguing that a technical solution existed for every social and economic problem."

Do-nothing Hoover was actually a progressive!

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

P.E. Poole — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 04:43:22 -0000

Obama says that responsibility for our current mess partially lies with the "seats of power in Washington D.C.". Has he ever made it clear who he is referring to? Are they still in those seats?

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Guest — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 04:22:19 -0000

"Obama is being honest."

You state this as fact. Do you have any evidence to back it up? On what grounds should I believe him?

"But of course he is neither."

If it were so obvious it wouldn't be very difficult to prove. Care to do so?

"But I guess everyone here thinks they are smarter then all those economist and that THEY are the ones with a corner on the truth of how best to clean up this mess."

The problem is that ALL you have are guesses. No one here presumes to be smarter than anyone. We are, however, intelligent enough to examine a man's ideas and accept or reject them on their own merit. That you would simply accept what "experts" tell you is nothing more than naked intellectual laziness.

"your guys had another chance at power"

Our guys? You mean the ones that axed all cabinet level departments except Defense and State, eliminated the income tax, shredded the Patriot Act, ended Social Security, allowed failed companies to file bankruptcy and reduced spending across the board? Those guys?

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

michaelsmith — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 03:54:29 -0000

Obamaâs fundamental problem is that he is very much like muirgeo -- he has swallowed whole and undigested all the leftâs fallacies, lies, distortions, equivocations and myths and only knows how to regurgitate them on cue, albeit regurgitate them quite adroitly and smoothly. He has no capacity to think independently. He is completely impervious to facts, reason, logic or evidence. His mind is turned off.

Thatâs why he is able -- with a straight face -- to propose a 1.75 trillion dollar deficit and call it a âreturn to responsibilityâ. Thatâs why he is able -- with an equally straight face -- to claim that consuming wealth creates wealth. Thatâs why he is able -- with that same straight face -- to claim that punishing production encourages production. Only an active mind is troubled by the existence of contradictions.

Obamaâs spending, taxation and environmental regulations will crush the economy and leave us -- in all probability -- in the worst of all economic situations: a hyperinflationary depression, i.e. a situation of mass unemployment accompanied by exploding prices -- with massive environmental restrictions on energy production preventing any possibility of recovery.

Unless we figure out some way to stop him, Obama will fulfill the leftâs lifelong dream of destroying the last remnants of American capitalism. He is leading what Ayn Rand called âThe Anti-Industrial Revolutionâ. He will go down in flames. Unfortunately, he is likely to take us all with him.

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Babinich — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:40:50 -0000

MHodak on Feb 26, 2009 @ 11:30:56 PM

"It's not that he's not smart enough. It just isn't anywhere in his background or training to have gotten it."

SheetWise said it first but it needs to be repeated again:

It is precisely because he is not smart enough. The teleprompter man is heaped with all sorts of praise and powers.

Look what he did for the state of Illinois.

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

SheetWise — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:07:33 -0000

MHodak: "It's not that he's not smart enough."

Yes it is.

Speedmaster: "Screams of newspeak from 1984."

I'm going to have to learn to be happy as a less than equal pig. Discrimination is beginning to hit home, and I have no idea what I did to deserve it.

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

MHodak — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:30:56 -0000

My greatest fear about Obama is not about his integrity or his intentions, or even his political nature. I fear he simply doesn't get the difference between market mechanisms and political mechanisms. He talks about the private and public sectors as if they're just different business models, as if they translate human inputs into goods and services pretty much the same way. He doesn't get the difference between a great idea and its market test.

It's not that he's not smart enough. It just isn't anywhere in his background or training to have gotten it. I think he will eventually get it, just as McGovern did, about a decade after he finds himself in the private sector--a decade too late for our nation.

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

MWG — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:16:33 -0000

Muir your posts are so repetitive, I could cut a paste responses to your older posts and nobody would know the difference.

Re: I guess it depends on what you mean by "responsibility"

Sam Grove — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:18:47 -0000

many prominent economist would agree with.

An argument from authority is as worthless as any of your other arguments.

He reminds me of that character in a science fiction story who discovered a drug that kept him from aging. The problem was that his brain would not change either, so he "healed" from any new information that was given to him.