Cafe Hayek - Latest Comments in His fault

Re: His fault

TheAlbatross — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 20:36:24 -0000

While I am at it, Muirgeo reminded me of my old professor Paul Krugman, so I though I would share some stories. Krugman struck me as a reliable teacher, although I don't remember him much (Now Uwe Rheinhart--there is an econmics professor I remember), but then again he was quiet back then and rather unmemorable. I do remember the book he assigned--his book--"the Age of Diminished Expectations." I still have it--the cover is a man walking down a staircase (into the ground), the staircase is an American flag. I think the book was published in 94'. I could be wrong about the date, but he seemed to have mispredicted the tech and economic boom of the 90's and 2000s--2000-2001 recession excepted of course. Anyway, I just thought I would add my experience to the mix--after all comments are about collecting dispersed knowledge--Hayek would have approved. Again, the hard part for me is that Krugman is a very gifted economist, but he is just so pessamistic and his predictions always wrong--I guess every generation needs its J.K. Galbraith.

Re: His fault

TheAlbatross — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 20:12:17 -0000

While we are quoting Jimmy Carter, let us not forget this quote from Jimstrodamus in 1977:

"World consumption of oil is still going up. If it were possible to keep it rising during the 1970s and 1980s by 5 percent a year as it has in the past, we could use up all the proven reserves of oil in the entire world by the end of the next decade."

Why did Julian Simon die so young?

Re: His fault

Dr. Troy Camplin — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 19:07:11 -0000

Why didn't Bill just come out and say, "Now, don't you know that Hillary is just a woman and can't be expected to be good with money?" That would have been more honest of him, as that is the subtext of his statement. And if he's right that Hillary has trouble understanding how to handle money, hasn't he just given us a great reason NOT to vote for her?

Re: His fault

David P. Graf — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 18:34:11 -0000

Vidyohs,

Would it be presumptuous of me to suppose that you won't be voting for Hillary this coming election? :-)

Re: His fault

vidyohs — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 18:13:35 -0000

It is precisely because of people like the Clintons and the Clintons themselves that this nation is in the mess it is now.

Without the disease of socialism infecting us we would have a school system that graduated educated children.

We would have plenty of oil and gas. (How can any one be stupid enough to claim "peak oil" is a threat when we haven't touched ANWR, the oil shale in Utah and Colorado, or the vast amounts of oil and gas that lie under our continental shelf.....none of which we can touch because of the Clintons and people like them....peak oil? In a pig's ass!)

We would have a health care system that provided quality care and at a price that the vast majority could afford, all without government involvement.

We would have a free market system that provided unimaginable wealth to all who willingly paticipate.

We would have news media that was diverse enough that we could get good, timely, and accurate information on social, political, and economic issues.

We would be able to walk our streets in most of America without fear.

There would be no drug war.

There would be no income tax on you guys.

There would be no Federal Reserve.

Our money would be real money instead of Federal Reserve Notes (debt).

In short everything that we can currently call a social ill in this nation can be laid solidly at the doorstep of the Clintons and people like them.

Not opinion, historically documented fact.

Re: His fault

Lowcountryjoe — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 11:12:13 -0000

muirgeo,

I am not opposed to a government-run healthcare, the likes of one we have never seen before! Problem is: I've seen Medicare and I've seen Medicaid. I've also seen TennCare and PeachCare. I want nothing that are like these. What I'd like to see is do-gooders and paternalists, like yourself, to advocate establishing government run healthcare that: 1) has and opt in or, at the very least, and opt out feature 2) is not in any way shape or form funded by general funds or reinsured by all taxpayers whatsoever 3) is entirely funded by the premium payments of the programs participants 4) and, finally, requires participating physicians that pushed for the plan -- people like you who claim they are what they say they are -- to accept the conditions and fee structures that the government program mandates on them.

There's you government health plan, muirgeo, now let's go vote on it with our pocketbooks.

Discriminatingly yours,

LCJ

P.S. Happy Birthday to any other Devil Dogs out in the reading audience; Semper Fidelis.

Re: His fault

Randy — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 11:08:30 -0000

"...the best you can do is put forward solutions that best address what people want..."

I want free and unlimited healthcare. But hey, who doesn't? All we're doing, Muirgeo, is reminding people that limiting factors exist. I know you all don't want to be reminded of that. What dreamer does?

Re: His fault

Methinks — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 09:51:48 -0000

Oh yeah. Nothin' but blue skies ahead back in 1970.

What? You didn't enjoy staring at the sky waiting in line for gas? We need to bring those back. I know! Let's start with an anti-gouging law.

Re: His fault

Methinks — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 09:39:05 -0000

Mesa (totally OT),

Always delta neutral. Spread risk I just have to deal with.

Niederhoffer's new funds just blew up. The flagship, Matador, was gored by the bull I guess (pardon, couldn't help myself).

There's a very long and detailed article about him in a recent New Yorker magazine. Last I checked, it's still on their website. Very interesting. Such a brilliant man. Such a horrible trader. WHY???

Re: His fault

Paul Zrimsek — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 08:05:48 -0000

I'll take the economy 25 years post FDR over this one any-day.

Oh yeah. Nothin' but blue skies ahead back in 1970.

Re: His fault

Mesa Econoguy — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 07:58:43 -0000

Paul Krugman is an idiot.

That’s why he got fired from his CEA job.

Re: His fault

muirgeo — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 07:53:28 -0000

LCJ,

You guys are mocking and presuming on the Clintons but it certainly is not THEIR views that have our country in the position it is in.

It may or may not be true but there is a very good argument to be made that our country would be better off with a properly set up nationalized health care system. It may or may not be true that our country would be better off if we completely deregulated the health care industry. For that however, there is little empiric evidence. Further it will NEVER happen.

My best point to be made would be to suggest to the libertarian and conservative who may wish for a deregulated system but realize the impossibility of such to recognize that the best you can do is put forward solutions that best address what people want and what could be a system that most closely relies on market forces to operate.

What will happen is those dissatisfied will not compromise and the results will be a half witted system that solves little. Unfortunately the conservatives in power for the last 25 years have done nothing to address the issue. If medical IRA's were a possible solution they did little to push them through.

My opinion, honed from Paul Krugmans latest book, is that a well set up public health care system would be great for America but disastrous for the conservative ideology.

Re: His fault

David P. Graf — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 06:42:42 -0000

One can agree that Hillary Clinton may not be the best choice for President or for anything to do with the healthcare system. Even so, I don't think there's too many people who think that there aren't problems with the current setup. If we don't fix it, then there's a good chance that the public will go with someone who at least claims to know how to do it.

Re: His fault

Lowcountryjoe — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 06:42:32 -0000

Who's the darn fool? Could it be the posting alias who cannot stay on topic and the one who continuously spouts ellusive concepts such as 'foreign oil dependence' yet would do anything possible to minimize obtaining domestic supply?

Patisanship can blind and cause hatred within people. Such rank partisanship does not play well within an audienece that values liberty. So, do not be surprised, muirgeo, when your views get slapped around and mocked here.

Re: His fault

Mesa Econoguy — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 05:19:14 -0000

Yes, the “terrorist” [sic, Rasheed the Iraqi, perhaps] might indeed get us, but I fail to see the relevance to your vacuous prattle, muirgeo.

Even Mrs. Clinton occasionally shuts up, usually in front of Grand Juries.

Re: His fault

indianajim — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 04:57:54 -0000

muirgeo

Whenever you have to resort to personal attacks as opposed to arguing the points, you are as good as admitting defeat. So if you are interested in trying to persuade, I would suggest you stop posting things like:

". . . appease children like yourself", blah, blah, blah. Its a bad argument; its a sure loser as well as a sore loser.

Re: His fault

muirgeo — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 04:27:36 -0000

brotio,

How many of the terrorist from 9-11 were from Iraq? The terrorist are not gonna destroy our country. The proper response doesn't require a "war" except as an excuse to appease children like yourself that this is a necessary war to SAVE you from the terrorist. Because people like you respond to being frightened.

Our response to the attack has harmed us far more then the terrorist. And the administrations use of terror to scare people like you into letting him, his war profiteers and his oil buddies make a killing while you actually cover for then is what terror is about.

I'm not too worried I'll ever be effected directly by terrorist...but I know I've already been seriously effected by our dependence on oil and terrorism is just one small subset of the deleterious effects of our oil dependency. Worse will follow. Jimmy Carter was a wise man. Had we listened to him the terrorist threat and the energy problems would be far less today then they are having let the oil industry run our foreign policy.

Re: His fault

Randy — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 01:31:14 -0000

Muirgeo,

"We've been attacked.... It dominates our foreign policy and we've spent trillions... of our dollars....It's suppliers run our policy and own our politicians."

Who is this "we" and "our" of which you speak. I make a bi-monthly rent payment to the Progressives R US Corporation because they own the part of earth that I live in. The internal squabbles of its board of directors are of no concern to me. Who they choose to war with is of no concern to me. I use oil and gas because its cheaper than chopping wood and walking. I would prefer that oil and gas cost less than they do, but then I would prefer that the rent I pay to the Progressives R US Corporation were lower too. Its a preference, not a crisis. C'est la vie.

Re: His fault

brotio — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 22:34:05 -0000

That should be "Just READ his post above", but considering Muirgeo's disdain for eeeevil Capitalists, "red" might not be all that inappropriate.

Re: His fault

brotio — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 22:30:33 -0000

Nope, the big, bad terrorists didn't fly planes into the WTC, didn't attack the USS Cole, didn't hijack the Achille Lauro, and Nicholas Berg wasn't hacked to death by Islamo-fascists. Nope, it was all made up by Chimpy McBushitler. There are no big, bad terrorists, just ask Muirgeo.

No, wait. Don't ask Muirgeo; he doesn't answer questions. Just red his post above.

Re: His fault

muirgeo — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:27:58 -0000

Muirgeo,

"The energy crisis is real."

It wasn't then and it isn't now.

Posted by: Randy

And you're a darn fool. We've been attacked by terrorist because of our oil dependency. It dominates our foreign policy and we've spent trillions worth of dollars and live to secure and subsidizes its supply. It's suppliers run our policy and own our politicians. It's market price in no way reflects a "free market" and all the externalities it's customers pay for.

Yet somehow guys like you feel like you're Mr Independent filling you ICB car everyday with no other choices on how to get around never realizing just how dependent and addicted you are. You're like one of those slaves of old or a long time prisoner who doesn't want to leave after the war is fought or when your time is served. Like a beaten housewife defending her husbands actions.

A few less pizzas , videos and vacations...no big deal...? Very sad.

And this inanity, "Those who invent crises, then, now, and always, do so because it is profitable for them to invent crises."

Oh yeah the big bad terrorist are going to get us so...Yeah that's what the "crisis" is. Nope no one profiting off of the so-called "terrorist crisis". You may have eyes but you're blind as a bat.

Re: His fault

Mesa Econoguy — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:22:11 -0000

Hey, Methinks. Happy [flat] Friday.

Having personally witnessed Victor Niederhoffer’s 1997 S&P supernova, I’m fairly certain that “Mrs.” Clinton would’ve blamed that on Monica Lewinsky, too, or Red Bone:

http://www.washingtonpost.c...

politics/special/whitewater/stories/wwtr

940527.htm

Re: His fault

Methinks — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 20:35:17 -0000

Hi, Mesa. How's the Money Ruling going? Have you been enjoying the week-long Asset Fire Sale? Exhausting. So, I'm listening to "comfortably numb" (Pink Floyd is a favourite in our house).

Of course, despite my best efforts, I can only dream of Hillary Ethics Clinton's futures trading returns and bottomless credit. Margin calls are for the little people, not Madame. Same for ethics and truth.

But I'm sure we can totally trust her....

Re: His fault

Mesa Econoguy — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:14:28 -0000

I would suggest limiting CH4CH3OH

Re: His fault

True_Liberal — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 17:31:55 -0000

Randy - you forgot "a few more sweaters".

And a fringe benefit muirgeo probably can't (or won't) understand: Keeping the house cooler means the refrigerator compressor runs less, further saving energy, lower electric bills, fewer greenhouse gases, yada yada.

Of course Al Gore doesn't have to worry about all that.