Cafe Hayek - Latest Comments in Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

Nasikabatrachus — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:57:10 -0000

And yes, I know this thread is more than a month old. But you rock, Don.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

Nasikabatrachus — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:45:53 -0000

"I would be surprised to find very many libertarians in the military given its association with the state and its use of force to enforce the will of the state. Of course, I'm not a libertarian and so I do not agree with Boudreaux on this issue."

Correction:

"Of course, I don't oppose slavery and so I do not agree with Boudreaux on this issue."

Fixed that up for ya, David P. Graf. Be sure to tell your children that they are the property of a group of people by virtue of being born within the confines of an imaginary shape drawn on pieces of paper that refer to the globe, and as such are morally obligated to comply if those people wish to use them for the purposes of murder at the risk of their own lives. I'm sure they will have nice dreams afterwards.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

Beverlee — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 08:29:44 -0000

If only markets were truly open, no need would exist for a powerful army, let alone a draft. Yes, that's an ideal we can't afford at the moment, but has anyone noticed the Baby Boom immigration from the U.S. to former Communist strong-holds? The other night on HGTV's "House Hunter's International", an everyday couple bought a home in Nicarauga, a country where building for the demographic proceeds 'hot and heavy'! As my dad always said, "Bring that Yankee green."

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

vidyohs — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 05:48:59 -0000

Oh and BTW, ya'll might find this interesting:

http://iowahawk.typepad.com...

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

vidyohs — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 05:44:58 -0000

BH,

Good thinking and I will go you one better.

"If you protect a man from folly, you will find you have raised a nation of fools". William Penn

Let us take the wisdom in that astatement and turn it into this: "If those who vote for war do not go to fight that war, then you will find voting for war an easy task."

"Those who make the laws must live by those laws."

It is my personal philosophy that our laws should make it mandatory for all congresscritters who vote to send our troops into combat, or those who do not actively vote to oppose it, be required to accompany those troops either as a company commander of combat troops or as a front line medic.

Demanding that others go where you will not just doesn't make for good law.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

vidyohs — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 05:35:56 -0000

PK,

There is bad law, 99.9%.

There is good law, .01%

And, law that no one has ever understood, .09%.

Lysander Spooner, (lysanderspooner.org) one of the brightest legal minds this nation has ever produced makes the case that obeying bad law means that there is no incentive for the lawmakers to change the law. If the law is bad, only disobedience, mass disobedience especially, will get it changed. See also the effective tactics of Ghandi.

Disobedience is not the best way, it is the only way.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

Randy — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 05:25:11 -0000

Per Kurowski,

The draft is not the "law of the land". The fact that it exists is proof that it is not. It is simply a use of force in the interest of the political class.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

Per Kurowski — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:38:39 -0000

I just don’t get it!

Do I read our Dear Tenured Professor telling his 11 year old son "And if, when the time comes for you to perform this degrading tribal ritual, you decline to do so, you'll have both my admiration and my unconditional support”?

Is he actually telling his son to break the law instead of asking his son to help him change the law?

Where on earth does our Dear Tenured Professor believe the frontier goes between the law of the land and a “degrading tribal ritual”? In the need to respect a tenureship?

What on earth might he be teaching his students? Parents and students caveat!

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

Bob Howland — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:07:07 -0000

I find it interesting that nobody has mentioned that only men have to register for the draft. By my rough estimate, 100,000 to 150,000 draftees, all men, have been killed in combat while serving in the military, since women got the vote. I think that affirmative action demands that women and only women be drafted until a similar number of drafted women have been killed in combat.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

vidyohs — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 02:17:58 -0000

Maximus,

Admit? Admit, sir? Nay, proud boaster I am!

Viva la prurient interest!

Good unceasing health maintenance in all that implies. And, maybe good genes.

:-)

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

vidyohs — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 02:07:34 -0000

brotio,

That could be the answer, but I still have to wonder because when I renew my passport I am never asked about military service or selective service registration and it isn't my white hair that gives me the pass. I have never had the question asked.

Not when I have registered my car, renewed my driver's license, or done any of the things that make me brush up against government.

I only use my military retiree's ID when I infrequently wander into the PX at Ellington AFB, or as the 2nd ID when someone asks for 2 forms of ID. So, it isn't that I advertise that I am a military retiree.

To tell you the truth I have never heard of anyone having the complaints that Jeff expressed. Not calling him a liar, understand, just wondering what circles he is moving in. Government can be like that, black to me and white to Jeff and all for no discernible reason.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

SheetWise — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 21:03:29 -0000

"... is it treasonous to endorse (as I do) a return to the immigration policy that reigned for the first 100 years of America's existence as an independent nation?"

Double positions are always hard to respond to. Let me help myself ...

... is it treasonous to endorse the immigration policy that reigned for the first 100 years of America's existence as an independent nation?"

No.

It's more like being human than being treasonous.

As long as you understand that all immigrants are not looking for independence -- or freedom. Which was recognized in that policy.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

maximus — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:32:18 -0000

"not the babe next door who wears the itty bitty bikini.....okay maybe she is a problem."

Vidyohs:

Didn't you admit you're 67 years old on another thread? What's in the water down there? I want some!!!

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

Jon — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 18:50:51 -0000

Well ... let's see you refer to foreign worker influx as a "invasion". That's simply couching your argument in inflammatory wording that is designed to elicit a "Well we gotta protect America" kinds of responses.

I can show you the data about the productivity gains made by foreign labor. All you can do is point and shout and go "They took our jobs!" which is absurd on its face because it assumes that American citizens have an inherent right to their job. And then you couch it in terms of a.) Race and b.) "invasion".

I had to register for student loans, but you know what, if they call me up, I'm heading to Mexico. No government has a claim to my life, hell they take enough of my life from me as it is.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

brotio — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 18:20:55 -0000

Vidyohs,

I'm assuming that you enlisted while there was still an active draft and that Jeff signed up after the draft was suspended.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

vidyohs — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 18:16:02 -0000

"Oh, is that all we have to do? I'm sure the welfare state will be eliminated any day now, right after hell freezes over.

Posted by: scottynx | Sep 7, 2008 10:02:18 PM"

Exactly, scottynyx, that is why I say government is the problem.

Everyone is all excited about the wrong problem, and that is no accident.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

Sameer Parekh — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 18:09:37 -0000

What's interesting of course is that you have to register for selective service in case there is a draft-- so they can force you to serve if you don't want to. However, if you volunteer to serve in the military, but didn't register for selective service, because you don't want to be forced to serve, you are denied the opportunity to serve.

Great system.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

scottynx — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 18:02:18 -0000

"Stop all the left wing government give away of goodies and you cut down on immigration immediately..."

Oh, is that all we have to do? I'm sure the welfare state will be eliminated any day now, right after hell freezes over.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

vidyohs — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:46:09 -0000

"Hopefully when you explain your zealotry for open borders he recognizes your treasonous behavior for what it is.

Posted by: Your a loon | Sep 7, 2008 4:10:48 PM"

Some really sad, insufficient, ignorant, and irrational thingking went into that post. Immigration is not your problem, Your a loon, government is. Stop all the left wing government give away of goodies and you cut down on immigration immediately, and what immigration that did continue would be beneficial not a drain.

------

Keith,

"I think there is an unquantified drive in humans to be a part of something bigger than just the individual. Posted by: Keith | Sep 7, 2008 5:02:24 PM"

Some people, Keith, some people, but not all by any means. Being a part of something bigger is unsatisfying when you learn it isn't better.

--------

"The draft is unconstitutional. Try telling that to the treasonous politicians in Washington though."

"Posted by: happyjuggler0 | Sep 7, 2008 6:09:57 PM"

Actually, happyjuggler0, Milton Freidman did just that during the Nixon administration and convinced them that the draft was unconstitutional and that was when it was canceled. Why they still have a Selective Service Reg. is proof that nothing is ever dismantled unless it is directly tackled. With no draft there is no need for a Selective Service Registration.

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"The fact that Don obviously feels comfortable sacrificing others, but not his own, smacks terribly of hypocrisy."

Posted by: nunya | Sep 7, 2008 6:24:17 PM"

Nunya, this is plain silly, however it is the heart of your post. Find one quote from Don that supports your silly accusation. I have seen time after time Don express a consistent position, that being that he doesn't want to sacrifice your son or his son on the alter of a politicians whim.

------

"The statesmen may call it "murder" or anything else they like. I couldn't care less.

Posted by: Martin Brock | Sep 7, 2008 6:31:01 PM"

For once we agree Martin, without reservation. I am military retired and my 21 years taught me enough to advise my 3 children that if the draft came looking for them I'd help them and support them in Canada before I'd see them place themselves under the arbitrary authority of the kinds of shitheads I most frequently served under and with.

--------

"Still, it's been a pain in the ass, and always will be. There's been serious talk about revoking passports and other stuff. What a pain that will be for me.

Posted by: Jeff | Sep 7, 2008 8:24:21 PM"

21 years in the Navy, retired, never registered for Selective Service, and never have had a single moments of hardship or controversy in any manner because of that lack. You must be born under an unlucky star.

------

"Don advocates erasing our borders and those who wish to defend them are called racist by people like Jon.

Posted by: Your a Loon | Sep 7, 2008 9:04:36 PM"

Me, I just call you a blind fool who has never spent a moment really digging deep into the facts and truth about the value of immigration. The boogie man gotcha running scared.

-------

Government is our problem, not immigration, not the draft, not selective service, no drugs, not guns, not oil, not traffic, not infrastructure, not the babe next door who wears the itty bitty bikini.....okay maybe she is a problem.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

OnlyShawn — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:12:51 -0000

...how about, rather than racist, we call you ignorant? We can start with poor grammar (it's "you're," not "your"), and then move on to the issue that the only separation between your and Don's position is that you favor the CURRENT forms of legal immigration, while the professor favors greatly expanding what constitutes legal immigration.

The only difference, then, is that you seem to favor racially differentiated criterion for admission into this country. Now...that sounds like racism to me. What would you call it?

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

Martin Brock — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:12:25 -0000

You and Don simply are advocates for an unchecked invasion.

Me too.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

bartman — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:10:08 -0000

As has been mentioned above, when faced with actual peril, this country will have no shortage of volunteers.

It only needs the draft whe the public can see through the political BS and refuses to swallow the phony "defend you country" nonsense, e.g., Vietnam.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

Your a Loon — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 17:04:36 -0000

Don advocates erasing our borders and those who wish to defend them are called racist by people like Jon.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

Randy — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 16:39:28 -0000

I'm with Don on this one... and with Max who says that if the nation can't find volunteers to defend it then it doesn't deserve to survive. This "nation" is no different than any other in history in that it has a political class that survives by collecting rent from the population. Wars are never fought except in the interest of this political class, and only rarely do they have any net value to the population. These are facts. The evidence for them is that the draft exists. Wars that the population finds in its own interest will have no shortage of volunteers. It is only wars fought solely in the interest of the political class that face a shortage of volunteers. Such wars should not be fought - and if a political class is destroyed by them... so be it.

Re: Dulce Et Decorum Est — Not

Anderson — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 15:51:06 -0000

So, Nunya, it appears that you're willing to sacrifice other people's children for your own personal benefit. Nice.