Non-U.S. automakers that might normally be eager to ship vehicles and replacement parts to the island are hampered because of U.S. trade rules. Ships are prohibited from entering U.S. ports for six months after making deliveries to Cuba, effectively blocking access for those companies to the world's largest market.
If a non-US company exports cars to Cuba, is the vessel or the company prohibited from US ports for 6-months? If the company isn't, why can't it ship on vessels that don't call in the US? Surely there must be some. Or at least transfer them to such a vessel in another country, say, Venezuela.
Maybe there just isn't a market for them in Cuba, ya think?
Eric Hanneken
· 3 years ago
This is one reason *not* to embargo Cuba: it gives communists an excuse for the failure of their system to bring material prosperity.
Another reason is that it probably is hurting the Cuban people, by raising the transaction costs of trade with people in other countries. Meanwhile, Castro looks like he's living comfortably.
Ivan
· 3 years ago
No reasonable free-trader would be interested in restricting trade to communists.
Isn't that just punishing a populace unlucky enough to have a communist revolution even more?
I really can't believe the embargo still exists. What a waste.
Swimmy
· 3 years ago
I believe embargoes can be useful depending on context. As Eric Hanneken and Ivan note, the embargo probably does increase Cuban misery by some degree. The hope seems to be that the Cuban people will become miserable enough to turn on their government, but I imagine the real effect is that they just hate America more. However, in the case of South Africa, where not only the standard of living for the average Joe but that of the power elites was threatened by trade embargoes, the pressure was high to end apartheid. Unless the embargo can do some direct damage to Castro's regime (and judging by his reported net worth, it doesn't), I don't see any reason to continue it.
Sean
· 3 years ago
The embargo is dumb. Imagine if we had had an embargo against China over the last few decades. Would there even be such a thing as Wal-Mart? Probably, but we'd all be poorer, not just the Chinese.
Xmas
· 3 years ago
The embargo is dumb.
But that shouldn't stop someone, say, in Mexico, or Jamaica or some other country in the Carribean from making a good living shipping goods from there to Cuba (or vice versa).
But that only works if Cuba has money to buy goods, or if it had goods to sell.
Beerme
· 3 years ago
Of course it's dumb and it's harming Cuban people, just not as much as Cuba's government is harming Cuban people.
The embargo should have been ended years ago. But Cuba's communist government should have ended years ago, as well...
True_Liberal
· 3 years ago
The US trade embargo accomplishes nothing except to give Castro an excuse for his failures. Spain, Mexico, and a dozen other countries manufacture cars AND have normal relations with Havana, yet WE take the blame.
Both the US and Cuban peoples are suckers enough to fall for this fraud. Education is the only answer.
TGGP
· 3 years ago
I remember reading earlier that the restrictions on trade with South Africa strengthened the nationalist party, who were the architects of apartheid, but I forget where it was, so unfortunately I can't link to it.
BlacquesJacquesShellacques
· 3 years ago
The embargo is indeed stupid.
Lenin got it 100% backwards about who gets hung with the the ropes we are selling. Let's sell Cuba lots and lots of stuff, including plenty of ropes.
Free trade frees.
ncwod
· 3 years ago
All trade is conducted with the Cuban government, specifically the trade agency, Alimport. All benefits of the trade -- access to food, cars, etc. -- therefore goes to prop up the existing dictatorship and the nomenklatura.
Absent any Chinese-style liberalization in Cuban government policy, ending the embargo would actually reinforce the oppression.
BlacquesJacquesShellacques
· 3 years ago
"...ending the embargo would actually reinforce the oppression."
I disagree, because of what I know from my German relatives.
The first people to get the goodies would certainly be the nomenklatura. However the servants would see it and talk. "Juan, those foreign computers / sex toys / video games / whatever are really great."
Next, they get stolen or lost or sold or given away when older. The nomenklatura are human too, with girlfriends, friends, relatives.
The stuff spreads. People talk.
Pretty soon the carpenter is no longer ignorant about a new Black and Decker drill nor does he see it as a distant dream. He sees it as an attainable right. Likewise computers, cell phones, machine tools, drafting equipment. And just watch what they build, physically and politically, when they get a few tools.
Eventualy, there comes The Day. As happened in East Germany, Poland, Hungary...
Ronald Reagan pushed, perestroika pulled.
Bill
· 3 years ago
Communism is terrible, don't get me wrong. The majority of the problems with scarcity is likely the result of the communist government. That being said, the U.S. trade embargo is rather ridiculous. Cuba is an extremely poor country, and yet we have an embargo on them. Even if there would be shortages anyway, it appears as if it is all the fault of the United States.
There is even an Act of Congress, part of the whole embargo package, I forget the name, which says that american citizens who used to be cubans can maintail a legal cause of action in a United States court against any foreign company (like a Canadian dairy company for instance) who does business with a cuban government comany, if that Cuban government company took or is comprised of property that used to belong to the ex-cuban who is now an american citizen. (Bush continued to sign a clause which keeps this provision inactive, but it has to be signed every couple of years) (Note also that such a provision is pretty unique because while countries can pretty much do whatever they want to protetct the property of their citizens, this is the first type of legislation that I am aware of that seeks to protect the property of citizens before they were citizens. Imagine if the same law was passed for Palestinians or former citizens of Iraq)
One of the problems with this Act is that it creates uncertainty, and if a foreign company has the minimum contacts with America, then a united states court will have jurisdiction over it and its assets which are kept in the U.S. Another problem is that there is no real good way to know for sure who really has a legitimate claim to land and property that was seized in Cuba 50 years ago, especially if they fled and didn't bring their documents with them.
Although communism is Cuba's main problem, as long as we keep the embargo up, it will look like we're the ones causing it. And I don't think that it can be argued that the embargo is not really bad for Cuba. Sure, communism is worse, but the embargo is probable the main reason for the car part shortage. Granted, with no embargo, there would be government corruption and shortages too, but right now, the shortage is created by the embargo.
Also, I think you underestimate the power of the U.S., and the fact that there is a significant deterrent to other countries who would otherwise do business with Cuba. The market for cars there has got to be pretty small, because the people are so poor. Not wanting to piss off the U.S. seems like a pretty good reason for a company to not bother with trying to supply Cuba.
Kevin
· 3 years ago
As I always like to say whenever Lefty yaks about Cuba's wonderful healthcare system -- Geez it must be enormously costly to the Cuban people, maybe the chief cause of their poverty. (Of course they never understand what I'm saying, and argue that no, it's FREE!)
In such an impoverished country, if their healthcare is even half as good as libs claim, that must hugely distort the economy. I reckon every bright person on the island is drafted into healthcare. Imagine if you're competing for resources against healthcare when Castro thinks that his health system will keep him popular with Jimmy Carter and Hollywood. Imagine how all other industries suffer for that.
What if people had freedom of choice there? Healthcare is actually not the one most important thing in everyone's life every day -- peoples' behavior certainly proves that.
Some people might like a couple more pigs instead of this year's dental check-up. Maybe they'd skip the anal probe this year in exchange for a used car, huh?
Lack of free trade causes all sides to be poorer than might otherwise be the case, but for Cuba the embargo is a drop in the bucket compared to the fact that Castro doesn't permit the economy to organize itself according to peoples' own free desires and calculations.
Zan
· 2 years ago
Our government consistently tells us that the embargo has nothing to do with the poverty in Cuba. Then why do we have it?
The reason is obvious to anyone who knows anything at all about modern history. The agenda is to keep a socialist government from succeeding. To let it succeed would send a message to impoverished countries all over the world and especially in South and Central America.
All Comments
Non-U.S. automakers that might normally be eager to ship vehicles and replacement parts to the island are hampered because of U.S. trade rules. Ships are prohibited from entering U.S. ports for six months after making deliveries to Cuba, effectively blocking access for those companies to the world's largest market.
If a non-US company exports cars to Cuba, is the vessel or the company prohibited from US ports for 6-months? If the company isn't, why can't it ship on vessels that don't call in the US? Surely there must be some. Or at least transfer them to such a vessel in another country, say, Venezuela.
Maybe there just isn't a market for them in Cuba, ya think?
This is one reason *not* to embargo Cuba: it gives communists an excuse for the failure of their system to bring material prosperity.
Another reason is that it probably is hurting the Cuban people, by raising the transaction costs of trade with people in other countries. Meanwhile, Castro looks like he's living comfortably.
No reasonable free-trader would be interested in restricting trade to communists.
Isn't that just punishing a populace unlucky enough to have a communist revolution even more?
I really can't believe the embargo still exists. What a waste.
I believe embargoes can be useful depending on context. As Eric Hanneken and Ivan note, the embargo probably does increase Cuban misery by some degree. The hope seems to be that the Cuban people will become miserable enough to turn on their government, but I imagine the real effect is that they just hate America more. However, in the case of South Africa, where not only the standard of living for the average Joe but that of the power elites was threatened by trade embargoes, the pressure was high to end apartheid. Unless the embargo can do some direct damage to Castro's regime (and judging by his reported net worth, it doesn't), I don't see any reason to continue it.
The embargo is dumb. Imagine if we had had an embargo against China over the last few decades. Would there even be such a thing as Wal-Mart? Probably, but we'd all be poorer, not just the Chinese.
The embargo is dumb.
But that shouldn't stop someone, say, in Mexico, or Jamaica or some other country in the Carribean from making a good living shipping goods from there to Cuba (or vice versa).
But that only works if Cuba has money to buy goods, or if it had goods to sell.
Of course it's dumb and it's harming Cuban people, just not as much as Cuba's government is harming Cuban people.
The embargo should have been ended years ago. But Cuba's communist government should have ended years ago, as well...
The US trade embargo accomplishes nothing except to give Castro an excuse for his failures. Spain, Mexico, and a dozen other countries manufacture cars AND have normal relations with Havana, yet WE take the blame.
Both the US and Cuban peoples are suckers enough to fall for this fraud. Education is the only answer.
I remember reading earlier that the restrictions on trade with South Africa strengthened the nationalist party, who were the architects of apartheid, but I forget where it was, so unfortunately I can't link to it.
The embargo is indeed stupid.
Lenin got it 100% backwards about who gets hung with the the ropes we are selling. Let's sell Cuba lots and lots of stuff, including plenty of ropes.
Free trade frees.
All trade is conducted with the Cuban government, specifically the trade agency, Alimport. All benefits of the trade -- access to food, cars, etc. -- therefore goes to prop up the existing dictatorship and the nomenklatura.
Absent any Chinese-style liberalization in Cuban government policy, ending the embargo would actually reinforce the oppression.
"...ending the embargo would actually reinforce the oppression."
I disagree, because of what I know from my German relatives.
The first people to get the goodies would certainly be the nomenklatura. However the servants would see it and talk. "Juan, those foreign computers / sex toys / video games / whatever are really great."
Next, they get stolen or lost or sold or given away when older. The nomenklatura are human too, with girlfriends, friends, relatives.
The stuff spreads. People talk.
Pretty soon the carpenter is no longer ignorant about a new Black and Decker drill nor does he see it as a distant dream. He sees it as an attainable right. Likewise computers, cell phones, machine tools, drafting equipment. And just watch what they build, physically and politically, when they get a few tools.
Eventualy, there comes The Day. As happened in East Germany, Poland, Hungary...
Ronald Reagan pushed, perestroika pulled.
Communism is terrible, don't get me wrong. The majority of the problems with scarcity is likely the result of the communist government. That being said, the U.S. trade embargo is rather ridiculous. Cuba is an extremely poor country, and yet we have an embargo on them. Even if there would be shortages anyway, it appears as if it is all the fault of the United States.
There is even an Act of Congress, part of the whole embargo package, I forget the name, which says that american citizens who used to be cubans can maintail a legal cause of action in a United States court against any foreign company (like a Canadian dairy company for instance) who does business with a cuban government comany, if that Cuban government company took or is comprised of property that used to belong to the ex-cuban who is now an american citizen. (Bush continued to sign a clause which keeps this provision inactive, but it has to be signed every couple of years) (Note also that such a provision is pretty unique because while countries can pretty much do whatever they want to protetct the property of their citizens, this is the first type of legislation that I am aware of that seeks to protect the property of citizens before they were citizens. Imagine if the same law was passed for Palestinians or former citizens of Iraq)
One of the problems with this Act is that it creates uncertainty, and if a foreign company has the minimum contacts with America, then a united states court will have jurisdiction over it and its assets which are kept in the U.S. Another problem is that there is no real good way to know for sure who really has a legitimate claim to land and property that was seized in Cuba 50 years ago, especially if they fled and didn't bring their documents with them.
Although communism is Cuba's main problem, as long as we keep the embargo up, it will look like we're the ones causing it. And I don't think that it can be argued that the embargo is not really bad for Cuba. Sure, communism is worse, but the embargo is probable the main reason for the car part shortage. Granted, with no embargo, there would be government corruption and shortages too, but right now, the shortage is created by the embargo.
Also, I think you underestimate the power of the U.S., and the fact that there is a significant deterrent to other countries who would otherwise do business with Cuba. The market for cars there has got to be pretty small, because the people are so poor. Not wanting to piss off the U.S. seems like a pretty good reason for a company to not bother with trying to supply Cuba.
As I always like to say whenever Lefty yaks about Cuba's wonderful healthcare system -- Geez it must be enormously costly to the Cuban people, maybe the chief cause of their poverty. (Of course they never understand what I'm saying, and argue that no, it's FREE!)
In such an impoverished country, if their healthcare is even half as good as libs claim, that must hugely distort the economy. I reckon every bright person on the island is drafted into healthcare. Imagine if you're competing for resources against healthcare when Castro thinks that his health system will keep him popular with Jimmy Carter and Hollywood. Imagine how all other industries suffer for that.
What if people had freedom of choice there? Healthcare is actually not the one most important thing in everyone's life every day -- peoples' behavior certainly proves that.
Some people might like a couple more pigs instead of this year's dental check-up. Maybe they'd skip the anal probe this year in exchange for a used car, huh?
Lack of free trade causes all sides to be poorer than might otherwise be the case, but for Cuba the embargo is a drop in the bucket compared to the fact that Castro doesn't permit the economy to organize itself according to peoples' own free desires and calculations.
Our government consistently tells us that the embargo has nothing to do with the poverty in Cuba. Then why do we have it?
The reason is obvious to anyone who knows anything at all about modern history. The agenda is to keep a socialist government from succeeding. To let it succeed would send a message to impoverished countries all over the world and especially in South and Central America.